Realistic Expectations

I’m going to be harsh in this post and lay down some realistic expectations for what someone can achieve in Daygame in terms of quantity and quality.

Now of course this is dependent on your starting SMV. If you start with a higher SMV then you can get higher quality to begin with and over time; or at least a higher quantity of the same quality.

Potential SMV also exists. Work on your looks and your charisma/Game and nurture your vibe in the medium to long term and maybe an average guy can improve himself from a five to a six all told. Sounds like a small difference but it makes laying sixes much easier, saving many hours of work, and you might just luck your way to a few sevens as well. It also puts the eights within reach given the guy has the perfect combination of luck, persistence, tenacity, determination, etc, etc on the day in question.

Potential SMV is capped, by the way; no amount of telling yourself “I’m a ten” will actually make you a ten. Now we all go through a “fake it til you make it” phase in the beginning where we’re trying to big ourselves up to have a higher SMV than we really have but that illusion wears off. Once it does you’re going to need to rely on real value. Essentially: don’t disregard the “making it.” As I alluded to before in this post you have to actually give her a reason to have sex with you. SMV is king.

So what are some realistic expectations:

If you are dedicated, consistent, persistent, smart, curious, can handle rejection and a whole huge list of the qualities that makes someone good at Daygame and get near your potential SMV plus there’s nothing else going on in your life which will affect your ability to approach (e.g. too much work, death in the family, etc.) then you can expect to get around 12 lays a year. 11 one year, 13 the next, etc; it averages out.

I’m basing that number on all the conversations I’ve had with Daygamers over the past four years. It is extremely rare for me to meet someone who’s actually getting 12 (or more, even rarer) lays a year.

What stands out to me is how low that number may seem. You have to have all your ducks in a row, work very hard and yet you’re only going to get 12 lays in a year? Famously, “an intermediate Daygamer should expect to get 12 lays a year” but from talking to so many Daygamers and finding out what their lay counts really are, 12 seems more like an advanced figure.

The lays are distributed exponentially as well:

  • 0-3 lays per year: 90% of Daygamers
  • 4-6 lays per year: 5% of Daygamers
  • 7-9 lays per year: 3% of Daygamers
  • 10-12 lays per year: 1% of Daygamers
  • 12+ lays per year: 0.1% of Daygamers

(who knows where the remaining 0.9% went. I don’t. Do you?)

Now those numbers are stylised, I of course don’t have the exact figures, but they serve the purpose pretty well: it is extremely rare to find a Daygamer with 12 or more lays in a year.

And what about quality? Taking a guy who started as a five (completely average looking) and through a few years of hard work on his looks and Game managed to improve himself to a six. Maybe he can also travel more often to the places where his particular look gets him the furthest:

  • 0 – 2 eights
  • 6 – 8 sevens
  • 2 – 6 sixes

Let’s be straight here: just as it’s extremely rare to find a guy getting 12 or more lays a year from Daygame, it’s just as rare amongst those guys to find someone who has laid an honest to God, creme de la creme nine. For nearly everyone reading this stop talking about the nines and tens because they genuinely are out of your league. Eight is genuinely the upper limit. And don’t comment saying that “that’s a limiting belief” because what’s more limiting is your SMV.

I’ve been guilty of claiming to lay a nine myself. I’ve now corrected that plus the averages in my statistics section. I did the same for all my Daygame lays and with better perspective and less ego invested I reduced two 8s to being 7s and one 7 to being a 6.

So why even do Daygame? Well many people report that the quality is higher from Daygame, so just imagine what the average guy is getting from Nightgame. Plus with Daygame you don’t have to be out late into the night, you don’t have to drink as much, there’s less bullshit with her friends, etc. There’ll probably be a specific reason why you prefer Daygame to other forms of Game but that’s beyond this post. There’s also the question of “how would you be doing without Game at all?” Rather than lucking into a one night stand every two years from “de cloob” with a six you’re now laying three sixes a year from Daygame. Whether that return is enough for you is for you to decide.

So there you go. Work really hard, don’t mess up, be consistent and get your whole life in order and you can expect to get 12 lays a year of mostly sixes and sevens.

Yours unfaithfully,

Thomas Crown

If you enjoyed this post then follow my blog using the button at the top right of the page. If you’d like a question answered then send me a mail using my contact form. You can support my work by purchasing my book: Demolition Lovers; my 2016 – 17 memoir which details my entry into the world of Daygame. 


This post got a strong reaction with a lot of comments. In this afterword I’ll try to address them.

Can you get better numbers by practicing different types of Game?

Let’s say you are a Daygamer but then you add in Nightgame, Bargame etc. and start using dating apps. As I see it, the increase in the number of lays will be because you’re approaching more, not because you’ve expanded the types of Game you’re pursuing. So if it’s purely from approaching more, why not just approach more using the type of Game you’re most suited to? If you’re unhappy with your numbers right now then approach more in slow and consistent increments until you find your own sweet spot (quality vs quantity vs time invested, etc.). This doesn’t mean don’t approach in any other environment, it means you shouldn’t specifically pursue different types of Game just to get better numbers (do it for a change of scenery, for example). 

Should there be a separate set of numbers for different locations and people with different work lives? 

No. I’ve had people corroborate these numbers from New York and from different time frames so I don’t think they would differ drastically anywhere. If you fuck up your Game in your home city you’re going to be fucking it up when you travel too. Getting 12 lays a year from Daygame is still only for the select few. Now if you live in a smaller city or one somehow worse for Daygame then the statistic representing you is most likely to end up in those lower brackets with higher percentages. In addition to all of that, only a certain few people are going to change their jobs so that they can Daygame more and travel more often. We’re still constricted by our budgets too. Because of that those people are already present in the 0.1% of Daygamers who get 12+ lays a year. 

That means that the correct way to improve your numbers is to increase your SMV up to its potential and see what’s possible, not to simply travel more. If the eight isn’t going to fuck you in London she’s most likely not going to fuck you in Warsaw. Why would she when her other options are better?

What if your eight is my six?

Of course there’s a subjective element to rating girls. What I said are realistic expectations of quality that come from my idea of what’s hot and what’s not. But then again, I’ve Daygamed for long enough now and when Daygamers talk to each they tend to give ratings to girls and debate them if their ideas don’t line up. Long story short: I have a lot of experience in rating girls. This is how I rate girls these days:

6: she’s better than average looking but you wouldn’t brag to your friends (which is a funny social phenomena because most guys aren’t getting laid outside of relationships anyway)

7: she’s good looking and you pat yourself on the back

8: you take opportunities to show your friends her profile pic

9: you show strangers on the street her profile pic

What if you like seeing girls more than once? 

Then obviously your numbers are going to be lower because you prefer to direct your energy and time towards her. Here’s a contrived example: I like to see my girlfriend twice a week. Let’s say that on half of those days I Daygamed instead and did five sets per session. That’s an additional 260 sets a year. With an approach to lay ratio of 1:50 that’s five additional lays. What if my A:L deteriorated as I approached the burnout point and it slipped to 1:70? That’s another three to four lays a year. Or I could use that time to improve my SMV towards my potential and the A:L is likely to decrease, meaning more bangs for my buck. It’s simple maths. And don’t give me any shit about it “improving your feeling of abundance” because time is a higher constraint. 

What about if you’re consistently approaching, have high SMV, have something special in your favour, etc?

The percentages I included are for all the people who try Daygame. Those people with those advantages are already present in the higher percentage brackets. This post is going to be most useful for two types of people: for beginners to have realistic expectations and to assure intermediate and advanced Daygamers that they are actually doing very well.

25 thoughts on “Realistic Expectations

  1. Tom:

    Add in a few different Game modalities and you can expect to raise the number of lays.

    Online has produced some good numbers and quality for me, Daygame, night game, sex parties and my personal music jam.

    I’ve picked up 28 girls since Oct 2018 so wanted to get your thoughts on utilising more than one modality.



    Sent from my iPhone



    1. I think getting more lays from using different types of Game is mainly from approaching more. I think if you want more lays then approach more in the style of Game you’re best suited for until you feel yourself burning out at which point take a step back: you’ve reached your activity limit. I wouldn’t mix types of Game because you’ll burn out and spend your time on less productive and enjoyable activities. I’ve personally used online before and of course done my fair share of drunken “Nightgame” but the quality of the girls and the experience itself was worse than Daygame in nearly all cases. As always: what’s best is what’s best for you.

      Liked by 1 person

  2. This is a good breakdown. However, I disagree with your hypothesis on quality. It may be worth separating London and CC/EE as they are completely different SMP (as you mentioned travelling to were your look is optimised). Remember, I may be wrong but this is from my personal school of thought.

    I don’t think getting women via Daygame is a vast spectrum of quality i.e bunch of 6’s here and bunch of 8’s there (at least in my mind/experience). Nightgame is a better measure for that as you are screening for sluttiness/drunkenness. When Daygaming, the girls who are IOI’ing you will almost always be low to mid 7’s if you are a high 7. You’ve long graduated/transitioned from that market of 6’s. I’m speaking largely dating not fast lays. Fuck ladder is real.

    I don’t believe a holistic male 6 is getting High 7’s or 8’s with Game in London according to your breakdown. The VALUE GAP is simply too big. Perhaps in a different market place i.e. CC/EE you might due to the abundance. You may get a bigger differential in quality within London but often times those girls have poor logistics. So SDL’s or Long Game are your best bet here. I think the wiggle room in London for a high 6 doing bread and butter Daygame; is to get high 6’s/low 7’s with GAME on the one end AND low 6’s from the other end (largely from the utilization of IOI’s).

    Also there is a MASSIVE difference between banging a low 7 and banging a high 7. Massive. Which is why I believe the average daygamer is getting low 7’s because majority, bar exceptions, are high 6’s at best (Still feels like winning the lottery). To get a high 7 you’d need to be a high 7 at the very least due to women’s hypergamous needs and competition in this place. And even then you’d need meticulous Game.


    1. I agree with most of this. In terms of London Vs eastern Europe, for example, this was why I specified someone being able to increase their ability to go there over time. And even most guys who travel aren’t getting 12 lays a year.
      In terms of quality I don’t personally differentiate between highs and lows. Plus that’s why I put a range on the quality: you can be laying six 6s and six 7s for example. For a male six that’s way above what society would allot to him without his intervention.


  3. From what I’ve seen over the years, I agree.

    What I would say is that the population of the city you daygame in is a big factor too.

    12 a year (from daygame alone) will be hard no matter what in cities of less than 600,000 people, maybe even 1 million.

    Your average quality will also largely be defined by the city you live in.

    (I believe Krauser wrote bout this in Daygame Infinite)

    E.g. on average, in London you’ll probably approach more 6s & 7s but in Warsaw you’ll approach more 7s & 8s.


  4. [even most guys who travel aren’t getting 12 lays a year].

    Trouble is most High Value Men don’t want to be players and most players don’t want to be High Value Men so you get this weird equilibrium in the community. However, I’m sure certain few do exceptionally well.


  5. I simply put to you, do you believe most guys doing Daygame are dating high SMV women let alone banging them?


    1. Your original point was saying high SMV guys didn’t want to be players, this is moving the goalposts.
      And no most guys doing anything ever aren’t laying (who cares about dating unless you’re building towards an LTR?) high SMV girls because most guys aren’t high SMV


  6. [Your original point was saying high SMV guys didn’t want to be players.]

    Yes I do believe a woman’s value has a biological impact on a male. And the greater her SMV the larger this impact. Thus the greater access you have to high value women the more inclined you will be to pair bond unless you’re particularly damaged or simply do not want that. To go further, High Value Women are mostly K selects so there will be less opportunity for quick sex (particularly the further east you go). So assuming a High Value Guy is practicing Game (YHT) the incentives to be a player just aren’t there the same for a low value player picking up mediocre women.


  7. Ask the Spanish coach Álvaro Reyes expert in daygame. In 2014 he slept with 248 women living in the center of Madrid. Seduction is not a science. It’s an art. 😉


    1. Either he’s the best specimen of the male gender of the human species that’s ever existed, or he’s a fraud.

      Either way, this made me laugh, which is good.

      I wonder why people are looking at me funny now in this supermarket queue.


      1. Because he lived in the center of Madrid and he approached the girls every day taking them home and why he is one of the best players in the world, if not the best. It has a multitude of infields that prove it. Surely you do not enjoy good logistics and you have low results because you are intermediate level. Non-experts


      2. Personal attacks now? Hermano is triggered by my simple question.

        A “coach” like you would know that emotional control & non-reactiveness is the cornerstone of game.


      3. You have not heard of it because it is Spanish and Anglo-Saxons only see content from your language. The best seducers in the world are Spaniards and Latinos. haha No, just kidding. Search for Alvaro Reyes Infield on YouTube 😉


  8. “no amount of telling yourself “I’m a ten” will actually make you a ten” – no, in addition you have to drop thousands of dollars on RSD products, then it’ll work, I’m sure. #irony

    Liked by 2 people

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: Logo

You are commenting using your account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s