Male Quality

A few weeks ago I wrote a post on the realistic expectations in Daygame and at the end I went over the quality someone could expect:

  • 0 – 2 eights
  • 6 – 8 sevens
  • 2 – 6 sixes

That was for a guy who was hitting that advanced level of 12 lays a year (the 1%); it will be different for anyone getting below that number of lays of course. It’s also going to be variable depending on how attractive you are as a guy, which is what I’ll go through today, and where you live (but don’t give me any pussy paradise arguments). And to bring it up once again: forget the nines because they’re so impossibly rare and you need to have such a perfect storm to get them.

First, a quick prima. Male SMV is made up of your looks, status and charisma. Some examples:

  • Looks: heights, bodyfat %, facial structure, muscularity
  • Status: visible wealth, social circle
  • Charisma: Game, likeability, leadership, vibe

Broadly speaking your looks provide the most r-selected value and your status provides the most k-selected value. There is some crossover to note such as a tan indicating that you have the means and time to holiday in warm locations (looks providing k-selected value) and your age (if a man is older he is implied to have higher status, but this will also amplify your dominance and give more r-selected value). Featuring in both r and k-selected value is your charisma.

Now to categorise the males. I like what Krauser said in Adventure Sex when he said that girls don’t really think in ratings like guys do. They think in terms of:

  • Invisible
  • Dateable
  • Hot (hawt!)

And this is how I’d interpret those categories if we mapped them to a number. Note that I’m talking about r-selected sex and so these numbered ratings represent your r-selected value (looks plus crossover status plus charisma):

  • Invisible: five and below; it doesn’t make sense for a girl who is at least a five to go anywhere near a guy who’s also a five when she can get fast sex from a six or better
  • Dateable: six to seven
  • Hot: eight

So at a higher level what this means is Daygame is all about male sixes, sevens and eights going after female sixes, sevens and eights.

Okay so what average quality can someone expect? Firstly there’s the issue that looks are distributed normally. That means that for every six there isn’t an equal number of sevens, and for every seven there isn’t an equal number of eights. In fact the amount decreases exponentially (there are less sevens than sixes, but there are even less eights than sevens). That is, for every deviation you move away from the mean (a five) the proportion is lower. In practice that means that your average quality is likely to be below your own rating.

Now let’s go through this and keep hypergamy in mind the whole way through:

A lot of guys will regurgitate the phrase that “Game is two points hotter” but from what I’ve seen that is such an anomaly that it isn’t true in practice. Maybe that would be true if looks were the only thing that mattered but they don’t: your status and charisma matter a whole bunch too. Bragging about your skill by purely comparing looks to looks is misleading.

In reality: “vibe is one or two points hotter” (and two points is the stretchiest of the absolute stretches that you can imagine). You have your r-selected value and then your vibe is the thing that fluctuates from day to day and is the thing that can get you the point hotter than your station. You can also say that there’s going to be extra r-selected value that a girl will attribute to you because you’re “just her type” (see my last post on having non-mainstream appeal but this does not mean that in moving away from having mainstream appeal you will get higher quality; by definition the guy with mainstream appeal is an eight and will do better than a six or seven with specific appeal).

It should also be said that the proportion of guys as you move from stage to stage is even less than for girls because of hypergamy. The incentive for a guy to be one point hotter is more than for a girl, because if a guy is only one iota better than his peers then he’ll take the lion’s share of the spoils. So (in a contrived example) there might be three female sevens to ten female sixes, but only two male sevens to ten male sixes, and so on. In practice and for all those nerds out there: male SMV is distributed normally but is platykurtic and has long tails. In English that means there are more weirdos and more GAMs in the male population.

For a male six

This guy’s average quality (add up the ratings and divide by the number of lays) is going to be slightly lower than six. For every seven that he lays there might be two fives (if he’s being totally honest with himself; male sixes have the most pressure to lie about their quality because of the stigma of claiming a five in the community).

For a male seven

The average quality will be slightly lower than seven (do you see the pattern here?). For every eight he lays there’ll be two or three sixes. Now, that means his average quality is going to be further below his own rating than for the six. Why is that? It’s sheer weight of population. Eights are rarer than sevens but not as rare as sevens are to sixes. The male seven simply has less to aim at unless he wants to slum it.

For a male eight

The average quality will be lower than eight and again the average quality will be further below his own rating. In practice nines are out of the question – though most possible for the male eight – as he’ll need that perfect storm of r-selected value, which includes his vibe on the day, and pure luck just to run into her. The male eight runs the highest risk of slumming it.

One thing that is vital to remember is: are you happy with your own results? If you are indeed “slumming it” but you don’t care about that then that’s what’s important. If you do care about other people accusing you of that then the only way out is to give yourself a quality floor and stick to it, but that will reduce your number of lays per year at the same time. The decision is up to you.

Another possibility is to only report stats for approach to lay for your rating and above. For me in the past few years that would have been (I consider myself a seven who can grow into an eight by 30):

  • 2016/17: 102:1
  • 2018: 91:1
  • 2019: 71:1

Just some ideas for you there. Hopefully this post will clear some things up and continue to give guys some realistic expectations of what to expect from Daygame.

Yours unfaithfully,

Thomas Crown

If you enjoyed this post then follow my blog using the button at the top right of the page. If you’d like a question answered then send me a mail using my contact form. You can support my work by purchasing my book: Demolition Lovers; my 2016 – 17 memoir which details my entry into the world of Daygame. 

25 thoughts on “Male Quality

  1. Very interesting analysis but I am of a complete different school of thought if I’ve understood you correctly.

    The whole point of Game is to get girls above you in SMV. However, competition is fierce in a place like London (due to an abundance of quality men compared to quality women) compared to say somewhere like Moscow where it is pretty much inverse.

    [You can’t get girls above your SMV in the long run: that’s the SMP working by matching girls up with guys who are equal to or above their own SMV (hypergamy selects for the best male DNA). If you want higher SMV girls in the long run you need to improve your looks, status or charisma (including improving you Game). In the short run, day to day, your vibe might be better and so your perceived SMV is higher, which can allow a long term male six to lay a seven.]

    From my understanding, the central thesis of your argument is as you become more attractive your average quality essentially drops? I agree your net of girls gets wider and deeper, however, that doesn’t mean you should take it easy if you choose not to.

    [No, you need to re-read the article. I said that a guy’s average will be lower than his own rating and that the gap is wider as you increase SMV due to the increasing rarity of 6s, 7s and 8s. Contrived example: male six’s average is 5.9; male seven’s average is 6.7; and a male eight’s average is 7.5.]

    A holistic male 8 (could even be a physical male 7 with his shit together far above the average male 7 i.e attractive fashion, lucrative career, widely read, attractive personality, real confidence etc) in London with Game should get girls of an equal footing no ifs or buts. The trouble is do you go for the easy predictable lays (a 7) or stick out and grind for quality knowing it will take longer and will be tougher mentally? Again, that is person specific but in my experience most guys want quantity above quality. Each to their own. I’m not saying one is better than the other.

    [This is what I alluding to in the slumming it part: if you’re happy with what you’re getting then who’s to tell you it’s bad. Same applies to quantity.]

    On the other hand, if you are physically an 8, then with Game (and a holistic lifestyle) you should be getting mostly 8’s and 9’s. Perhaps even the mystical 10 on the continent.

    [10s don’t exist and even the 8 isn’t getting “mostly 8s and 9s” because 9s are simply too rare.]

    [forget the nines because they’re so impossibly rare and you need to have such a perfect storm to get them.]

    Are they rare really or are we just bullshit’ing our ego’s into believing that we stand a chance to obtain them? For a guy who is out 3/4 times a week for much of the year, plus factoring in Euro jaunts, fashion weeks etc? I don’t think 9’s are harder (I know that’s not what you are saying). I’d argue they are easier for the right man because these girls live in such a modicum of suitors. That’s before factoring in how blissfully natural it must feel for them to be approached during the day then say a moody 7. The biggest issue is you just have to have phenomenal entitlement towards them. As soon as a seed of self doubt has crept in your finished.

    [This is just an attempt at reframing that fact that you (and myself) can’t get 9s right now (maybe in the future). Our SMV isn’t high enough.]

    If I can share a quick story. I had a 9 fashion model IOI me last year and it crippled me. All the self sabotaging weaseling came out that rarely existed for the 6-8’s. Deep down I didn’t feel worthy.

    [That’s an inner Game issue. Solve that issue and your SMV will be higher. Then your chances will be minutely better.]


    1. To further drive my point home, someone like Tom Torero’s average once you divide quality by per number of lays will probably be better looking than him and certainly at his quality as a minimum.


      1. This is why I said basing it on pure looks is moronic. His average quality might be higher than his looks but you need to compare her looks to his looks plus vibe plus Game etc.


  2. A significant factor that everyone ignores is location. Being a rich male in a poor country will immediately make you higher in SMV. However, being rich in California, New York, or London has very little impact on your SMV.


  3. The most crucial point of this post is that vibe will significantly improve your value on the day.

    Vibe is the real potent factor in game – “girls are emotionally-driven” after all.

    You made the point in the comments already that your blog is purely daygame-focused, but for perspective and for guys also do other forms of cold approach game, I’ll add that in terms of sleeping with girls who are of “higher value than yourself” – notice the quote marks – social proof & pre-selection are immense multipliers of value e.g. in social circle, bar game or club game.


  4. [You can’t get girls above your SMV in the long run: that’s the SMP working by matching girls up with guys who are equal to or above their own SMV (hypergamy selects for the best male DNA). If you want higher SMV girls in the long run you need to improve your looks, status or charisma (including improving you Game). In the short run, day to day, your vibe might be better and so your perceived SMV is higher, which can allow a long term male six to lay a seven.]

    This is incorrect. Put me in Central Europe and I will get girls two points higher than me in SMV. By definition YHT IS women above you in SMV. Now for the West your argument may ring true.

    I think you are missing the point that Game is value-add.

    Ever heard the phrase what we do shouldn’t even be possible? The SMP you describe is fluid not set in stone.


    1. I did *in the long run*. In the short run you can sometimes fool girls on your SMV using Game (fake it til you make it). You can also have a genuinely higher SMV in the short and long run by having a better vibe.


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