Hot off the press (pretty much given the frequency of posts in these lockdown days): I’ve been messaging Lee for a while now talking about Daygame and he had the fun idea of doing an interview for his website which you can find here.
I really enjoyed answering his questions and hopefully you’ll find the article and his website quite helpful.
Enjoy!
Yours unfaithfully,
Thomas Crown
2023 Update
Since Lee has now taken down his blog and a recent commenter asked for a back-up of the post, I’ve decided to paste it here to the best of my ability: this is the last draft of the answers I wrote before sending it to Lee and so it’s missing his editor’s notes and of course the comments section from his website.
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Foreword: First of all, I’d like to thank you for sending these questions over. I had fun answering them and hopefully your readers will find them helpful. They actually gave me some great ideas for full length posts in and of themselves. I know I could ramble on for a long time on each of these questions and so I told myself to write down three bullet points for each one and work from there in order to keep it succinct and practical. Enjoy.
The information to become good at daygame is already out there, oftentimes even for free. Yet the dropout rate in daygame is so high. Why do you think this is, despite all the available information?
I think the first thing to point out is that information doesn’t equal ease. Otherwise all the armchair PUAs wouldn’t exist because they’d be practicing the damn stuff. The same goes for any kind of difficult activity: I can know a lot about tennis including the correct spin to play or lots of individual stats, but I might never be good at it because I never pushed myself to be so.
Daygame is one of these difficult things to do because of the rejection. It keeps on punching you in the face and you have to get right back up and carry on going. That means that people to whom rejection is like water off a duck’s back take to Daygame well, but the amount of people like that in this world are few. Not only that, but they have to have had the correct series of events in their life lead them to Daygame.
Following on from that, what would you advise beginners to do in order to develop perseverance & ultimately achieve consistency in their results?
If you’re a complete beginner then my advice is to ease yourself into it. Build a habit by increasing your activity slowly and consistently. Go out and do three sets every other day. Then after a week increase that to five sets. Then seven and finally up to ten. That’s actually a lot of sets: 70 every two weeks. To be honest you’ll probably be doing more like seven to ten in that final chunk but do that for four weeks and you’ll be fast approaching your first 100 sets (if you follow that schedule exactly you’ll do between 76 and 85 sets in four weeks). Remind yourself of the fact that these sets are designed to reduce your AA to manageable levels; that means that quick compliments (“hit and runs”) count as sets. You can even give yourself permission to give a compliment and eject immediately if she doesn’t react well. The overarching aim of doing this is to get you into the groove of approaching.
While you’re doing your sets you want to keep stats on your phone and update them after each set. I tended to keep a note on my phone during the session detailing the number of sets I’d done and whether there was a number or social media close then I’d update my spreadsheet when I got home. Keep stats on your approaches, numbers/social media, dates and (possibly) lays. Track in 200 approach chunks and calculate simple ratios like approach to number/SM, number/SM to date, date to lay and approach to lay. Then you can see how you’re improving over each 200 approach chunk and see where your sticking points are.
You can base your method for those approaches on the two good beginner Daygame videos: one is available on Tom Torero’s YouTube channel and the other is via Nick Krauser’s website if you go to his recent “Introduction to Daygame” post and click the link. I’d then recommend reading Daygame Nitro also by Nick Krauser.
You also have to read the Mystery Method. It’s so important that it’s getting its own paragraph.
Note: I’m advising what an absolute beginner should do here and so I’ve recommended Nitro over Mastery because it gives better advice for beginners. in the Mastery vs Street Hustle debate it makes more consumer sense to get Mastery because the paperback version is half the price and longer (I’ve not read the update Mastery textbook and so can’t comment on whether the additional content is worth it). I’ve read both and I prefer the content in Mastery but save it for a little ways down the road when you’ve done more sets.
2nd note: If you’re a bit further along in your Daygame journey then you could follow the advice but with a few more sets but no more than 10 sets per session for a weekday and no more than 15-20 for a weekend day.
I was also going to recommend watching the entirety of Tom Torero’s YouTube channel until I remembered it’s now behind a paywall. I had the benefit of consuming it all for free on YouTube but you can’t take that opportunity now and so I’m not in the best place to say whether to pay the $99 or not. It will probably be helpful, though, even though you do have to pay. Another great piece of video content is Krauser’s Black Book (very underrated in my opinion) which takes you through the whole Daygame model in more detail.
What do you believe is the ideal balance between “How To” knowledge e.g. the London Daygame Model (LDM) vs “Theoretical Framework” knowledge e.g. The Red Pill or evolutionary psychology?
I don’t think there’s an ideal balance to be achieved here. I’d say go into both stores of knowledge to get the information that you need – in this case there’s a minimum amount of reading you should do – and then apart from that read what you find interesting.
From the how-to category I’d recommend The Mystery Method, Nitro and Mastery and from the theoretical side I’d recommend the first Rational Male book. Make sure you read those as a minimum. Then after that I have a list of recommended reading on my website and I’d say to read the books from the classics and biology/physiology sections. Those are there to read if you find the premises interesting.
If the question is really what is the ideal balance between studying and taking action: if you make it through the first 1000 sets then read and consume whatever the hell you want to. Read to your heart’s content. If you sour your own vibe by reading too much or the wrong thing then that’s your own problem to address. If you’ve done less than 1000 sets then prioritise reaching 1000 sets but don’t do more than 30 sets a week after that first month when you’re purely trying to reduce your AA. The four books set out an required reading plus the recommended reading on my website should easily be enough to cover that period.
We have both come across The Approach Junkie/Machine – the neurotic daygamer who has a compulsion to do endless numbers of sets. Do you think this is a good practice in essence? What would you suggest?
There are arguments that go in both ways but I’d say yes: it’s beneficial to build an obsession and compulsion with things you want to be better at. Especially if that thing is hard to do because you can overcome the difficulty with brute force.
The condition is simple: just don’t be a spammer. How do you avoid that? Here’s some simple ground rules: no more than 10 sets every two hours; no more than 10 sets on a weekday; no more than 20 sets per day on a weekend; you must be moving continually i.e. you can’t open in the same area all the time (fishing aside); no more than 30 sets a week. You might have seen the 50 sets a week figure bandied around before but I think it’s been said to encourage beginners to simply do more sets. When I say 30, I actually mean 30.
When I was in my first year I’d normally do two to three hour sessions and do ten sets: often six in the first hour and then the remainder over the next one or two hours. The rate of approaching would slow massively after the first hour as I became tired and the initial rush of endorphins wore off. Ironically I’d do less sets when out with a wing because we would be sharing the sets and talking to each other a lot.
Then how do you end this obsessive compulsive period? You’ll feel it inside yourself. You’ll start feeling guilty for not going out. Note that you should not be ending this period before 1000 sets. For me this came at the beginning of my second full year of Daygame (2018) where I’d noticed that my sets per session were decreasing over time. From ten to eight and down to six sets sometimes. That was when I went from a more compulsive approach to a targeted one.
You have written before about introversion vs extroversion and how it affects one’s style of daygame. Taking into account the zeitgeist/tone of today, how does either match up with a girl’s own predisposition towards introversion or extroversion?
If I had to theorise I’d say that extroverts would win out in today’s environment because there’s so much more to grab your attention. The thing is, I think this was always the case. Extroverts will by nature be more successful with women because they approach more. What’s changed recently in the Daygame community is that more extroverts are joining the scene and we’re seeing what they can do. To take that, or the tone of today, as an excuse to not do Game is just weak. Things were always this way you just didn’t realise it.
Now to whether introverts and extroverts can match up: of course they can! Remember that value (i.e. SMV) is king and not whether you match how outgoing they are. We’re also talking r-selection here; matching whether you’re an introvert or extrovert is not as important as for a long term relationship.
Given that introverts and extroverts can mix I’d absolutely recommend against changing up your style. I’ve tried it before and it just tired me out. I sit in the middle of the spectrum like most people and pursuing a highly extroverted style was exhausting. On the flip side a hugely extroverted guy will find something missing from the “do your sets, collect numbers, go on dates, venue one, venue two, etc…” model. To cut a long story short: when it comes to introversion and extroversion, don’t try to be something you’re not.
In daygame, I see the application of the 80/20 Principle, also known as the Pareto Principle, where 80% of results come from a specific 20% of actions taken. Do you see this yourself? What do you think are two things which, if emphasised or focused upon, can increase a daygamer’s number/frequency of lays per the 80/20 Principle?
I do see this myself because I think that this is a universal principle. People like to attribute their success to the bells and whistles because it’s easier. The 20% of things that lead to results are hard but not necessarily complicated. It’s easier for someone to say “I lost weight because I drank beet juice every day” rather than simply “because I stuck to a calorie deficit.” When you focus on what is difficult, you focus on the 20%.
Here are two things I think make up that 20%:
Logistics. Take the same guy and put him somewhere where girls will come to meet him for dates and his chances of getting laid increase astronomically. It doesn’t even have to be slapbang in the centre of town as if you were going to open the set then walk them directly to your doorstep. Just somewhere with good transport links where a girl will come and meet you for a first date. Now this goes beyond the practical aspects of a shorter distance to your flat from the place you meet her. It goes into your mindset throughout the entire process because it makes sex a possibility with every date; you always have the option to present sex to her via your front door.
Your looks. If you’re not 15% bodyfat or less right now then you must get into a calorie deficit today. You should also be lifting weights to increase your muscle mass. Looks are so important. So important. If you ignore them because “looks don’t matter” or perhaps you wish they didn’t matter then you are leaving lays on the table. I’ve Daygamed at many different bodyfat percentages (between roughly 12 and 21 percent) because of my fluctuating weight (bulking and cutting cycles which I shouldn’t have been doing) and I can assure you that the reactions I got at the lower end of bodyfat percentages were better, even if I control for my increase in skill over time.
Much has been said about r/K selection, and that we should aim to become more r-selected in our daygame to become “Her Dirty Secret” or “The Consequence-free Adventure Sex Guy.” How would you work on becoming this guy in practice?
I gave two good methods above: improve your logistics and improve your looks.
SMV is king so let’s focus on that second point. Your SMV is roughly made up of your looks, charisma and status. Status is more geared for K-selection so let’s ignore that for the sake of this argument. Looks are primarily geared for r-selected Daygame and so you should maximise them to maximise your “r-value”. A higher value man gets laid more and with hotter girls. The reason why this is good advice and not just telling you to suck eggs (“be more good looking, thanks TC! Hmmmpf…”) is because most guys are overweight and/or have no visible muscle.
My next recommendation: just move faster. In the spirit of Coach Greg: how fast? Faster than last time! Do quicker sets, date request after fewer texts, escalate faster on dates, etc. Once you find the sweet spot then stop going faster. It’s simple (but not necessarily easy).
As a migrant to an Anglophone country i.e. the UK, I have my own observations of this. From your perspective of growing up here, what is the overarching perception of Asian guys, both Southern or Eastern, in terms of attractiveness, sex & relationships in this society?
I’m not going to mince words here:
If you’re aiming to do r-selected Daygame then unfortunately for you the perceptions will work against you. Asian guys are assumed to be shorter, less attractive, more boring, more submissive, more creepy, dirty, unhygienic, etc. All in all they’re considered less attractive. Whether this is true for you as an individual or not it’s the perception that people have. The truth is that Asians rank low on average SMV scales and will face battles which a white guy wouldn’t.
Now, is that an excuse to quit? Of course not! Don’t be such a pussy! Everyone faces adversity in their life whether they’re white, black, brown, yellow, rich, poor, etc.
I know you have encountered aspiring Asian daygamers before. What would be your message to Asian guys who want to get good at daygame and/or have fulfilling sex lives & relationships? Should they do anything different than non-Asian daygamers?
This leads on from my previous answer. Asian Daygamers need to realise we’re all running the same race, just that some people start closer to the finishing line. Asian Daygamers don’t need to do anything differently but they will need to work harder to achieve the same results. They will need to analyse themselves with a harsher light and more often to boot. They’ll also need to improve their SMV more. In particular they need to be harsh on themselves but not fall into any complexes. The kind of “woe-is-me-I’m-not-white” stuff. In the immortal words of Detective John Kimball: “stop whining!”
But if I had to specify one piece of advice for aspiring Asian Daygamers it would be to use your brain more. Just because corporations have outsourced their call centres and factories to your countries doesn’t mean you should outsource your brain to a “guru.” If you have a question then try and answer it for yourself first, then if you can’t answer, pose it to someone else and let them know what you’ve thought of already. I say this specifically for Asians (though everyone does it at one point or another) because the Asian schooling system prioritises memorisation over creative thinking. This leads to someone being the eternal question asker: “if X then what? If Y then what? Etc.” Practise thinking for yourself.
Now, my advice to any new Daygamer is to set yourself some reasonable goals and build on them over time To begin with, on your very first day, it might be to do your first set. Then it might be 100 sets, then 1000 sets, or your first lay, then to get five and then ten lays. Build progressively until you think you’ve reached your potential. For some guys that’s models and bottles, for others it’s wifing a five where only one of the three kids are yours.
I do this kind of goal setting myself. Right now my goal is to get 100 lifetime lays. Then after that I’d like to reach 100 Daygame lays. If I’m still interested in lay targets at that point and hadn’t reached it already maybe I’ll say reach 30 lays with eights. Maybe I’ll just say “I’ve completed Daygame now” and focus on something else. Who knows.
What are your main areas of focus currently in daygame & seduction, and how do you see yourself moving forward in the future?
Every one of us has their own Big Problem(s) (capitals intended). For me that’s impatience: I pull too hard. Something tempts me in the back of my mind and I give in against my better judgement and it’s hurting my results and is wasting my time. This was what I was referring to in the sweet spot: I know I’ve found the sweet spot and all I need to do is pull a little less harder now.
So how am I attacking the task at hand? I agree wholeheartedly with the phrase “what can be measured can be managed” and so I’ve got a little spreadsheet where I’ve indicated three moments on a date to calibrate off of: her initial interest, the kiss and the Questions Game. If I get a “bad” reaction at any stage I’ll know to pull back. Now, is this going to lose me some lays: yes, because I’ll not bang the girls whose interest I misinterpreted; in fact I think it’s already happened this year. However, I think back to all the times when I did overpull and I’m just tired of losing those lays. I’ll run this little scheme for ten dates to see how it goes and extend it if it’s effective.
My other main focus is on my looks. As I said, my weight has fluctuated and so another Big Problem for me is to keep my weight at the 12 – 15% bodyfat level and slowly increase muscle from there.
Thomas Crown PUA 