Recently the London Daygame crew welcomed Breeze for a bit of Daygame (and a little Nightgame on the side too). I wanted to take this opportunity to ask him about his experience.
What did you think of the quality difference between London and New York? How about the range?
As daygamers, we tend to only see the quality of sets, and in this regard London has both a quantitative and qualitative advantage over NYC. Londoners will say that getting 2 sets an hour is an admirable work rate, whereas in NYC we struggle to reach half that. And most of our girls are American. About 80-90% of the girls I open here have an American accent.
Once we relax the restriction on rating solo sets, NYC does indeed have beautiful women around and about, but equally we also have significantly more commies with half-shaved, blue hair and piercings in all the wrong places.
Outside of the streets, I observed quite a stark difference in quality at the jiu jitsu gyms. In NYC, we’ve had 4-5 cute girls come through our gym over all of 2021. In one night of training in London, there were 4! On my dating apps, which I didn’t check until I got back to NYC, I was matching with more girls in London as well–though we have to treat this data point with skepticism since the apps may have just given me a boost because I moved locations.
London 1. NYC 0.
It’s interesting you say that in NY that you struggle to reach half that workrate, whereas some Twitter-rati would say that that’s rubbish and that you can and should do tonnes of sets in NY. Is there something you can say here about the schools of thought for Daygame in NY?
I think [approaching a lot] is excellent advice for a beginner since everything is so new to him. He’s still acclimating to the whole process, developing his social skills and learning how to calibrate and lead interactions. His vibe will run on novelty and adrenaline. After that phase, it’s a losing game to approach every girl 6+ on sight–in NYC that would amount to 3-5 sets/hour in the absence of a pre-approach filter. Be genuine and authentic, not mechanical.
Are there also some difficulties in Daygaming American girls that you see?
I get a lot of soft blowouts from American girls (“oh thanks! sorry but I’m in a rush”), and of course the rare “wtf? ew?” are typically American. Non-Americans are more likely to play the seduction game along with me, and less likely to try to one-up me in conversation. Though I have noticed girls who are new to NYC are a bit more soft, so it may be more of an NYC thing then an American thing. If I were to jump the gun and build a narrative, I would suppose that NYC attracts career-hungry women, and students from money-laden families (NYC is the most expensive school on the planet) so they tend to carry an entitled attitude.
What kind of reactions did you get as an American in London? Do you think it could have an effect?
My impression is that interested girls will jump on the accent which gives me an opportunity to play up the foreigner points. Uninterested girls, however, won’t turn just because I’m a God-chosen Yank. I did about 40 sets in London, the best of which came from girls with English accents; maybe there’s something there?
We know about how Roy Walker did in NY, do you think that any other foreign guys / particular nationalities / ethnicities would do well in NY?
The guys I know personally who do best in NYC are good-looking, white Americans with professional photos and use multiple dating apps. Americans generally look favorably upon Europeans, so I would expect the English (more sophisticated) and Mediterraneans (exotic, but still western) to have a slight edge with girls. I’m just as surprised as Roy Walker that he didn’t get any foreigner points (or maybe he did get those points but our girls are just that much less receptive to daygame/LDM).
Outside of daygame, however, I noticed that the American accent played very well for me the night I went out with a few guys for some nightgame. More than half the girls I spoke to asked me about my whereabouts.
London 2. NYC 0.
How did you find the London Daygame area?
Absolutely amazing. There is a very large stretch of streets for daygame with volume, and which are well lit for evening sessions. The streets aren’t as loud due to traffic or crazy/homeless people, the sidewalk (pavement?) is wider and there’s not as much trash laying around. On that note, London feels safer in general. There isn’t graffiti on every corner, steel bars over windows to prevent overnight theft, or scaffolding (filled with graffiti, of course) covering the sidewalk every 2 blocks.
Beyond the streets, I also noticed it’s easier to find good date venues. In the US, we have to check out the bars beforehand in-person to ensure that they will serve you if you don’t plan on eating (because they may really be a restaurant) or that they’re not too loud from blasting music over their speakers. Bars also operate on the spectrum from sticky dive bars to fancy cocktail bars–finding the in-between can take a bit of work.
London 3. NYC 0.
Do you feel as if, because of less viable Daygame areas, that NY Daygame gets squeezed into certain places and ends up with certain areas getting bad reputations?
Just before COVID, there was an article in the NYPost about Washington Sq Park being overrun by “pervs” trying to pick up girls. Before I moved to NYC, I heard Union Sq got burned, but since I moved here I just rarely see sets there. Today’s best daygame spot may be overrun by guys on some days, but it generally has high enough traffic where it hasn’t developed a bad rap.
Did you find that the London Daygamers had a different style and approach to Daygame?
I have a short list of wings in NYC and we all have a style similar to the London Daygamers. Most NYC daygamers, however, do not follow this approach. For example, we walk around in pairs, or in a group of 3 at most. Other NYC guys go in gangs of 4-10. We do front/side stops; they do the walk-and-talk. We have a general structure to our sets; they wing it.
What do you think of the different influences (PUA gurus) which tend to direct how each “faction” operates?
I gandered at RSD, Simple Pickup and a couple of others outside of the LDM. They didn’t jibe with my personality or values so I didn’t look further. I’ve met about 20 or so guys in NYC now, of which 5-10 are active or semi-active (I’m part of the latter group). The other guys believe the LDM is too soft for NYC and say they don’t follow any gurus, coaches or structure.
I choose a version of seduction that plays to my strengths; and the chill, seductive, fun, masculine vibe that defines the LDM is what works for me. I select for wings that think similarly.
In your opinion, how many LDM style (active) Daygamers are in NY right now?
3-4 are semi-active.
What are two or three lessons that you’ll take back to Daygame in New York?
1) My approach rate in NYC this year has been abominable. I’m talking like 1-2 sets every 2 hours. It’s been very frustrating, but it turns out London isn’t so much better with 1-2 sets every 1 hour. I’ve learned not to beat myself up over the low approach rate.
Side question: could you go into why your approach rate was lower recently / why you consider it to be low?
I started half a year before COVID in Boston where I got about 1-2 sets per hour. Shortly thereafter I moved to NYC and got about 5 sets an hour. Though my game since then has matured and I have a stricter pre-approach filter, I believe the reduced volume is due to COVID restrictions. Stores require masks. Restaurants and trains require vaccine cards. Unlike London, people in NYC adhere to these rules/suggestions and laws, so it’s common to see people walking outside wearing their masks. I don’t believe NYC daygame volume has yet recovered from the COVID response as it discourages sets from wandering the city streets.
Back to the lessons you’ll take back to NY…
2) Rather than simply going direct, I want to experiment with an “indirect-direct” opener. I’m sure there’s a good reference out there, but I’ll summarize the idea as this: we’re going up to a girl not to befriend her, but to evaluate her romantic interest in ourselves then lead the interaction towards sex. If we want to gauge her interest, we send her our signals of interest and see if she reciprocates. It’s quite subtle and may sound too indirect, but let’s not forget that girls develop social empathy years before boys do. So with an indirect-direct approach, instead of directly complimenting her we jump right into a conversation about her, with our attraction signals being our smirk, strong eye contact, vocal tonality and tall posture.
I think by going direct, we’re effectively playing Tinder IRL: the girl is more likely to make a split decision based on our looks without evaluating the rest of our value proposition: vibe, charisma and good feelZ. I struggled with this when I first tried it, but it’s since become a bit more natural.
3) I like having fun with the teasing. So when a girl isn’t really playing back on the tease yet gives me a new topic, I tend to try to take it back to the tease. I want to better adapt the conversation to the girl.
4) TC noted that I tend to lean back as I’m delivering the tease right off the open, which is essentially one push reinforcing another.
Do you see yourself coming to London again, or other European destinations?
I’m still shaking off some weird habits like expecting drivers to drive on their left and adding “yeah?” at the end of my sentences. Though I’ve resisted replacing my coffee with an afternoon tea. I’ve got boundaries!
Beyond that, I do expect I’ll be in London again though not for a daygame-specific trip. I’ve heard too many things about going further east, where you can expect better gender dynamics, which, in turn, leads to better dating opportunities.
London 3. NYC 0. Eastern Europe…∞?
Any specific cities on your mind?
Of course, I want to spend time in the classics like Prague and Warsaw. At the moment, my ideal girl is a slim, short brunette with a slightly darker skin. I hear Bucharest would suit me. Though I don’t hear about guys in Spain, I’d like to give that a go as well since the girls fit my physical type.
Thanks to Breeze for offering to write this guest post for me. You can find his website here and his Twitter here.
If you’d be interested in writing a guest post for this site then let me know via the contact form at the top of the page.
10 thoughts on “Guest Post: An American Daygamer in London”
Confused at the 3-5 sets per hour approaching 6+.
I get 5+ sets per hour approaching 7+, no masks in Lower East Side/Soho AND I have a bunch of dealbreakers (no lawyers, dogs, colored hair, undercuts, septum percings, Blundstone boots, etc.)
Perhaps I just walk fast.
Also, this was in September/October 2021.
Great comparison Breeze. The world has changed a lot since Covid, and definitely agree NYC definitely is no longer the best place for game
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Breeze, thanks for the post and heads up we’ve met several times. I believe most of your struggles and reservations about NYC come down to one crucial aspect – you’re not out enough (I haven’t run into you since August).
I’m generally out 3-4 times a week with 1-2 wings per session (I rotate wings from a group of 10). 7 of these guys lean towards the LDM with the other 3 being raised on the RSD Model. None of the 10 have any issue with getting in volume (8-10 sets in a 2 and a half hour period is pretty reasonable). In the winter, sure getting to this number may take longer but even then there are available sets. I wouldn’t characterize myself or any of the guys I wing with as spammers either nor do we have low standards. Yes, too many girls wear masks but we’ve found most are still worth approaching so long as it’s not a N95 or other fancy design.
I will acknowledge that indeed 90% of sets these days are American. Pre-covid, I remember 50% of my sets were foreign and they constituted 75% of my dates. But the absence of foreign chicks has forced me to improve my game with the Americans, not easy and perhaps not ideal, but it’s certainly doable.
As to your comment on the guys who do best being handsome white guys, the daygamer I know and wing with who has the most impressive stats is a scrawny 5’7 colombian american. His workrate is insane (around 20 sets whereas most of us can do 10-12) and it netted him 38 quality lays in 2021 (and around a dozen grotty ones). His target market is white girls with a sprinkling of asians mixed in (he rarely approaches a latina).
The next best guy would be the leader of that street gang group you mention. He’s an Egyptian immigrant who works as a doorman. For the record, myself and none of the guys I wing are part of that group (though much respect to them!).
Also, you’re not a bad looking guy. I remember remarking some time ago that your style and BJJ physique evoke Brad Pitt from Once Upon a Time in Hollywood.
As for a dearth of viable daygame spots, Union is certainly not dead and there are a multitude of other places. You can try Murray Hill, UWS by either Lincoln Center or Columbia University, McCarren Park and Bedford Ave in Williamsburg Herald/Times Square and the entire bottom half of Central Park (lower volume but receptivity is twice as high as girls are more relaxed there). And btw the walks between these locations will have sets too.
Final note on viable venues – not sure what the gripe is here, there’s no shortage of venues in Manhattan in any place below Harlem and above FiDi. Happy to send you along favored locations of mine.
Appreciate your comments, YG.
The discrepancy in our experiences is in what we’re looking for. The scale is subjective, and I discovered in my trip that the European market more often delivers what I want.
I’ll spend more time on the streets when I find more girls that fit my preference, which I expect will happen as COVID restrictions relax. I defer from rating girls with masks since I can’t judge beyond the (lack of) wrinkles near her eyelids.
Thanks for the reply.
I’m afraid I don’t buy the discrepancy simply being a matter of taste. In terms of your preference for Eastern Euros, well last week two of my wings closed a Turk and a Ukrainian while a couple months ago another wing popped an 18 yr old Croat’s cherry so shock horror they are still to be found. I myself had a date with a Pole last week (no close and not yet on the board for 2022 but that will change soon enough). Point is most of the guys I wing with who are out regularly (say at least 7x/month) are doing just as much fucking as they were pre-covid and some more so due to improvements in game and physique. Adverse conditions have a knack for forcing personal progress. I think Marcus Aurelius first noted that but he probably put it more poetically.
Also not sure how you can lean so heavily on the mask excuse. From June to mid-December 2021 less than 20% of girls wore masks. It spiked to 75% during Christmas and early January but has since gone down to just under 50%.
Is there a risk to approaching a less than cute girl wearing a mask; sure, but less than you’d think. Amongst all the wings I know, each guy has only felt burned a couple times when the mask came off on the date (twice for me since May 2020). As you approach more of them, you’ll develop better intuition as to what the full set of features will look like, I’ve found there’s rarely a large discrepancy between the top and bottom of a girl’s face. And if you’re paranoid check her whatsapp or ig before date requesting.
Are conditions as optimal as they could be? Of course not, but how can one claim excellence or even competence in any given endeavor if he expects all factors to be in perfect order. If ideal conditions were a requirement, there wouldn’t be successful daygamers at any point in time in cities like San Fran, Portland or Cincinnati. Hell Nash from what I understand is enjoying great success in Japan and those fuckers invented mask culture (he also started in SF).
How about interviewing a NY’er who actually approaches and gets laid?
I trust Breeze over someone I’ve never met before